Im thinking of starting to say that more often :P
Or perhaps, on a broader spectrum "That's so sexual orientation", as suggested by Lauren.
It's just... i hear the term "gay" used all the fucking time at school and it annoys the hell out of me. Yes, i do get quite offended by it (obviously i can't say i am tho) but i have read many a comments section where i have seen arguments for both why people are and aren't offended by it - This also coming from people who are gay saying they aren't offended, and some even use the term themselves.
Personally, i don't see why a gay person wouldn't be offended by it. It's a pejorative term, a diminutive, something that is used to describe "bad" or when something has just went wrong ("oh that was totally gay")
When i hear it, i hear it as someone calling homosexuality and gays, bad and wrong.
I don't think it's right.
You hear it used on television too, in the mainstream media, which of course has such an influence over young people. But i seen a comment at some point, somewhere saying this, "People shouldn't use it, it would make as much sense to call something "black"... "That's so black". Doesn't make sense. Today, you are a lot less likely to hear the word "nigger" used on tv, maybe in some movies, but somehow "gay" "fag" etc. have become widespread terms"
I thought this was a good point, when was the last time you heard someone call something "black" (in a negative way like gay is) ?
Never. Coz it doesn't make sense, neither does "gay"
But here's the thing, some people don't use the term in a deregatory manner.
I bring this up coz i was walking to the train after school today with Alex and one of his friends who i kinda get on with and we were all talking about something, can't quite remember what and Alex's friends came out with the ol' "Yeh, totally gay"
Usually, i ignore it but this time i went "Yeh, really sexual orientation" in a very sarcastic way.
And it was Alex who picked up on this (i think he's noted i don't use the term and don't like other people using it)
He said, "When people say that, or well, when i say it, i don't mean it to be offensive"
His friend agreed, and he continued "It's just the way language has evolved you know, it used to mean jolly/ happy but now it means what it does"
Then he expanded "I don't have a problem with homosexuals. I just don't think it's... normal"
I raised my eyebrows.
"Well, it's not. You're cock shouldn't go up that way"
"According to who? According to what?" I enquired, some air of new found bravery had somehow came over me.
"...Life" he answered, strangely.
Damn, i was expecting him to say "bible" then i would have had a field day :P
The conversation just petered out after that and they went back to discussing what they were before.
But i thought it was quite interesting to hear Alex's opinion on the matter, coz i've never been entirely sure. Still not that i would think of coming out to him or anything but it was a new thing learned.
I want to pose the question to you though. Gay/straight/bi/whoever can answer this.
Is it right to call something/someone gay? Are you offended by it?
My answer is yes. Clearly, for some people, they may not associate it with having connotations of homosexuality (some say that over time it has been losing such meaning) but without a doubt the term started with those connotations in mind, and that's what annoys me when i hear someone say it.
Obviously, calling someone a "fag" or a "poof" has meanings tied in with being gay but the word "gay" itself, some would argue does not mean what it once did.
However, i believe if you reinforce the idea that "gay" is the same as saying "stupid" then you support the idea of bigotry and hate yourself.
I'm actually going to make a poll about this coz im really interested to hear what people think, would also like to see what people think in comments too ;)
Milkboys done a post on it as well, the comments section is worth a look - http://blog.milkboys.org/article/thats-so-gay/ (#9, #27 and #28 are probably where i got some of my arguments above from)
And lastly, homophobia is gay.
Rowan <3
juiceboys *2524
1 week ago
Hello Rowan
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that the phrase is offensive, and deliberately so in a lot of cases, the connotation that I read into it being that homosexuality is seen by many as being an inferior 'lifestyle', and thus, by association, whatever activity/person is being described as 'gay' is inferior. What, if anything, can be done about a usage that is so widespread, however, is a moot point.
Love & best wishes
Sammy B
Hi, Rowan...
ReplyDeleteBefore it was "That's so gay" it was "That's so retarded". Is that any better? The same principles you apply to the use of "gay" can also be applied to the mentally challenged. What about a different spin, "That's so Christian", or "That's so Catholic"? Maybe ask Alex if he'd be offended if that were common place instead?
The truth is, though, I am not offended by it. Maybe I should be, but it's so common place that it'd be like picking a fight every time somebody random opened their mouth on the street. "A" has stopped using that term, because of me, but his brother still uses it. In his defense, he doesn't know about me or "A", so, yea... But does it matter? Popular culture today breeds tomorrow's slang. In 15 years, it'll be something else. 15 years ago it was.
I'm sure that some poor man named Buck, who once had a very bad run in at the pool after his swimwear was taken away from him, cringes every time somebody says "buck naked" around him. I'm sure that some poor man named John, who once couldn't make it to the toilet on time, cowers in fear every time somebody says the phrase "barely made it to the john". And similarly, I'm sure that somewhere, there's some poor sap named Peet who is tired of things always being for his sake.
Need I mention poor Tom, Dick, and Harry?
Popular expressions from popular words based off popular culture. Should we be offended by their use? Perhaps. But just like we shouldn't swear, we do. People say "gay" like it's a bad thing, but do they really think gay is a bad thing, or is just the habit they picked up? Why is it Atheists still say "God, dammit!"? Why is it Christians still say "Jesus Christ" (in violation of the commandment to not use his name in such manner)? Do they mean the words they are saying, or do they merely say them out of habit, likely because they picked up somebody in popular culture/media saying it?
I'll never forget a time when I was about 7 years old, just after a hurricane in Florida. My adoptive mom and dad were with me in a car, and we were looking for a place to eat after the storm, since we had no power. One of the places we went to also had no power, and the owner was talking to my dad about it and why the restaurant across the street had power still when he didn't (my dad was an electrician, and did some side work for this restaurant). Long story short, we drove over there to see, and my dad said "I bet they have a damn generator!" as he got out of the car to check. As soon as he got back into the car, I asked, because I was curious, "Was it a damn generator?". Mind you, I was 7 or 8, and not really exposed to cursing much. I didn't register the word "damn" in there, I thought "damn generator" was the name of some gadget or other I was unfamiliar with, and I never put two and two together until a few seconds after I said it when I was like "oops". Obviously, I knew what "damn" meant, and I knew I shouldn't say it, but it slipped out in that context because I wasn't really thinking. Did I mean to use it like that? No, not at all. So how many people use "gay" because they believe it's wrong, and how many use it just because that's the trend of the time? I think you need to answer that question before you get offended at it. Sometimes, being the bigger man is having thicker skin and not taking offense when it really isn't intended.
Love, always!
-David
I was going to write a long answer to this post when I started to read it. But after reading the whole post, all I need to say is that you are on the right tract! Listen I am gay and have no problem with the word at all to describe me. ( I do prefer Queer though) But, and this is a big but, the one that use it as "that's so gay" are totally using it in a mean spirited way and the mean to be mean spirited when they do.
ReplyDeleteGood for you Rowan.... keep growing!
I reckon you already kno what i think, cuz i think we talked about it b4. EVEN THO WE DONT TALK NO MORE :O
ReplyDeleteNEwayz. I dont get offended. Cuz its like, when you say "thats retarded." You wouldnt say that to a handicapped person doin sumthin retarded would you? But when you say that about sumthin that dont matter you dont think twice about it. Its the same way, like my friends that kno i am gay, wont say it cuz they reckon its rude, but it wouldnt bother me anywayz.
Also, some of my black friends, i call them negro or nigga all the time. They call me cracker or "punk ass white boy." But we kno we aint being mean to eachother its just about cracking.
If someone was saying "thats gay" to be mean to me, or to be mean to gays in general it would be diffrent, i just reckon they say it cuz its just a saying.
IDK if i am clear or what not lol.
so yeah, hugz
Gabe
I hate it. When I see or hear it used as a pejorative, it feels like a slap in the face.
ReplyDeletePeople try to use the excuse that it's got nothing to do with homosexuality, but that's a copout, in my opinion.
If you know using "gay" to mean lame, stupid, bad, etc. hurts people, then wiseup and don't say it! Is it really that hard for people to think about the words they use? More importantly, why is it so difficult for people to consider the feelings of others?
It maybe 'just a saying' but it's that common use as a negative that helps retain the attitude that being gay is bad, alive. That common usage therefore perpetuates the negativity towards homosexuality in our culture which makes it an extremely powerful influence on generalized attitudes about sexuality. It's like saying "oh, it's so blue eyed" , something that is natural subsequently becomes subconsciously accepted as a negative throughout one's culture and when such terms are regularly used on TV (the most powerful of attitudinal influences) it's not hard to see how being gay has a LONG, LONG way to go before being rationally accepted in our societies. So, I hate the saying personally!
ReplyDeleteHey Rowan,
ReplyDeleteFirstly I hope this comment of mine doesn't meet the same fate as my last one, on atheism. Something, or "Somebody" zonked it, (looks up to the Heavens-lol). I couldn't re-write it, too long as usual. I hope you don't take it personally that I haven't written in a while, it isn't personal, just mostly technical.
Anyway, I mostly agree with you on this, tho the others especially David, made some good points too. "That's so gay". is a new one. When I grew up it was "That's so retarded" and others probably that I've forgotten. I remember being called a fairy at 12 and 13 (in '79 and '80) and not having any real idea what it meant. I assumed it meant sissy. I really didn't know a single thing about homosexuality, or even the word itself. To me "gay" still meant what it had always meant "happy", tho I didn't use it at all since it was archaic. I remember that for a while, my confused, but to me lighthearted and snappy comeback to being called (or asked if I was) a fairy, was to tell them, no--but if I were, I'd have already turned them into a frog. When this failed repeatedly to be taken seriously as a comeback, I came up with other attempts. it was years till it began to impress itself on me what "gay, fairy, faggot, and homosexual really meant. I knew, from church sermons that "homosexual" was bad somehow. But I had only a hazy idea of what it meant. And mostly didn't associate the slang terms with it at all till my mid to late teens. It's infuriating to be called something and know it means one thing, but also get the sense that the idiot using it means it another way. You can't ask, because then they just tease you more, and they NEVER answer, they never explain their insults. They always assume everyone already knows what it means.
But, as to the current "That's so gay" thing. In later years I had some success turning things like insults, around on my persecutors. In this case, you might say pointedly, "So does that mean you APPROVE or disapprove??" Or, if you have the guts, "Yeah, I kinda liked it too." or "Yeah, it IS pretty cool." [Of course THAT is tantamount to coming out, so you may as well arch your eyebrow at the offender like David Bowie--give 'em the faggiest look you can--and damn the consequences--lol.] Of course I was not a social success as a teen, so you may want to take what I say with a grain of salt. But I could never stand for the other side getting the last word, or the last smart aleck look, or remark. I was an angry clique of one. And I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But, dammit, they need to understand somehow that they need better insults, that are based on real bad people, not stereotypes of helpless kids caught anonymously in their midst. I'm just sayin' .
Of course, it's also late and I'm also cranky. That might have a little to do with it too. And it dredged up some bad memories for me of similar stuff to what you're going thru. Anyways, I'm not up to my usual eloquence right now, and there are some punks I'd seriously like to go back in a time machine and bust up 'side the head with a 2 by 4. It wouldn't harm them any, since the head on top of their neck was the one they never used any. Of course there are some I would seriously STILL like to take a 2 by 4 and bust them in BOTH heads. Keep their twisted children from infesting the halls of a later generations schools! GRRRR!!
[PART ONE OF TWO]
And as for "queer heaven"'s opinion, I must respectfully BUT VEHEMENTLY disagree. "Queer" is an insult, no ands, ifs, or buts--end of story, no argument, no debate--because there is NO other side to the story! "Queer" is an insult--period! It's like (or worse than) "nigger" for black people. "Butt pirate" is at least a funny insult (in a way), but "queer is a completely unfunny, complete insult and has NO redeeming virtues. I've always been furious and hurt, since I was in my early 20's when (some)gays started trying to "claim that word proudly" as their own. That was like a continuous long miserable "WTF are you idiots smoking!" decade for me-culminating in the horribly misnamed "Queer As Folk" show in the UK and then over here. Would they ever put a show on TV named "Niggers As Folk"?? I think not. There are just some words that are too hurtful and wrong to claim. Queer is one of them, nigger is another. And yes, I was probably called that a thousand times as a teenager, it will take death to make me forget it or forgive it. I don't WANT to claim it, and neither should anyone else! Now for a change of pace and mood.
ReplyDeleteAs for Davids lighthearted and intelligent post, I want to clear up a couple of things--none are important--just trivia. The phrase "buck naked" no doubt refers to American Indian males, who generally (so the [often true] stereotype goes) went around half naked, and were referred to as Indian bucks--like a male deer.
I'm partly Indian myself (not so's you'd notice, but it's in our family tree in a few places), and I actually don't find that one insulting. Part of the romance of the forest and the "noble Savage" and all that. Maybe it's just the "buck NAKED" part I like--lol-dunno.
And "for Pete's sake" is one YOU should know. It's short for the entreaty, "For St. Peters sake." When I was a kid, my Scotch-Irish descended, grand and great-grandparents would say "Oh for pities sake." I'm sure they had no idea what it really meant. Our family had lived in the Appalachians for generations, and most of us had never met a single Catholic since having left the UK hundreds of years ago, but obviously the expression had survived the generations, "Oh for Peteys sake." Interesting huh?
Till next time, G